Report 1864
Report #1864 Skillset: Geomancy Skill: Fleshstone Org: Magnagora Status: Finalised Problem: Fleshstone is a 8p ability that is currently restricted to the melding Geomancer, this is an issue mostly in keeping other Geomancers from making use of their own skills for defensive purposes and strategic planning. The ability itself can either be used to keep the Geomancer from being harmed for 20s(If they're the melder) or essentially keeping out a stronger target from play to focus on other targets(If they're the melder). 1 R: 6 Solution #1: Allow for Fleshstone to be usable in melded terrain, regardless of who is holding the meld. 1 R: 6 Solution #2: Allow for Fleshstone to be usable in melded terrain and tainted ground. Player Comments: ---on 3/6 @ 12:48 sets as pending ---on 3/8 @ 02:05 writes: Why is solution 2 not just "Allow Fleshstone on any tainted ground"? ---on 3/8 @ 14:36 writes: Either solution looks fine to me. Melders generally lack ability to aid much beyond waiting for the primary melder to die so they can have a chance to die too... I mean shine as well. ---on 3/8 @ 15:37 writes: I'm actually inclined to both solutions thematically. To which, I can agree with Danquik's thought about melders in general, with how they work in aiding. ---on 3/10 @ 11:33 writes: I'm a little skeptical of allowing every Geomancer to use Fleshstone in melded terrain, as you could remove key players in any engagement with no other setup than the melded terrain. This would make breaking into a Geomancer meld even more difficult than usual. Can I get some more solid numbers on the amount of time a person is removed from play if Fleshstone is cast on them by someone else? I'll have more thoughts pending that answer. ---on 3/11 @ 02:53 writes: Going to have to agree with Maligorn. Would need duration of fleshstone on enemy targets. Would be slightly less hesitant if fleshstone had a buildup before it went through when not self-cast. ---on 3/11 @ 15:50 writes: Glmanours bards have been doing this forever, with no meld restriction or terrain restriction. Arguably their maze can be critiqued, but that is rarely done, as spending 10p to remove a skill that will fade soon enough is rarely the best course of action. I will say a 10p counter, maybe a syntax added to Crashing in Environment could be added so if allies want to expend that power to rescue someone, they can. ---on 3/12 @ 01:00 writes: No. A counterskill is not the answer here. Furthermore, Glamourists must strip sixthsense before they can Maze a person - this usually takes the using of Flare (2p) which makes Maze (10p) a midfight option, not an opener - assuming the target has sixthsense up (which they absolutely should). ---on 3/12 @ 01:02 writes: Glamours maze requires the target be not-blind. So not only can maze be critiqued by an ally but a combat deffed enemy will have to have sixthsense stripped. The proposed changes would allow fleshstone to be cast on demand by any Geomancer (or censer holder) who has happened to taint the location. ---on 3/12 @ 01:02 writes: Aaaand Maligorn beat me to the punch. What he said! ---on 3/12 @ 01:53 writes: Glamour bards not only do not need to use Flare, they can use Fascinate, but tend to find their opponents un-blind already. I have mazed a number of people, 'top-tier' by walking in and hitting Maze. I don't know if you just have little experience with how easy maze really is, or not, but you are mistaken on the difficulty of it. Also, again, Glamour bards can maze anywhere anytime. Fleshstone would be terrain restricted. ---on 3/12 @ 04:48 writes: Yeah, I think this is honestly fine. I'm also of the mind to bring bubble/liquidform in line with whatever changes are made on this report. I also hold the opinion that a counterskill is not the way to go. ---on 3/12 @ 04:48 writes: Yeah, I think this is honestly fine. I'm also of the mind to bring bubble/liquidform in line with whatever changes are made on this report. I also hold the opinion that a counterskill is not the way to go. ---on 3/12 @ 04:49 writes: Sorry, I fat-thumbed my comment and it went through twice. Unintended. ---on 3/12 @ 21:40 writes: I will say that, especially when keeping balance in mind, one should expect that combatants do something as basic as upkeep sixthsense. As for the rest, though - my fault. I figured Fascinate's balance was too slow (or Sixthsense was quick enough) that you couldn't one-two punch into Maze. Thanks for informing me! ---on 3/14 @ 14:50 writes: I do share Maligorn's concern that we don't need more stackable banish-type skills - I think the only reason maze isn't a problem is because of what a suboptimal choice glamours is, particularly in the post wonderbrazier world. That said, I'm going to buck the trend here and say I think if there was a counter skill this might be ok: counterplay is important. One thing I wouldn't mind seeing as a possible alternative would be if a meld could only support one fleshstone, but the fleshstone could be cast by any geomancer. So your guy holding the meld could save power for unleash etc while the additional geomancer got to still use power for something. ---on 3/15 @ 01:08 writes: As said in report 1865, I am hesitant to see this report go through in conjunction with the chasm report. This would make fleshstone an instant kill OR a banish. Seems like too much for one ability. ---on 3/18 @ 23:34 writes: I share concerns along with the others. As this is kind of a mix skill between Bubble and Liquidform, which are also restricted to the melding mage and would be unbalanced should they be allowed outside of a meld for obvious reasons. ---on 3/19 @ 14:50 writes: Having thought on Tarken's idea, I think it would be a fair and balanced change to address the concerns being voiced in this report but I see no harm in allowing it to extend to Geomancer's self-casting on themselves given that the ability is being used for means of costly survival and not picking out an entire cadre of fighters in a best case scenario for active Geomancers. Mind I'll leave that up to the Furies if they'd like to sol.3(4) this, since it finalised before a change was able to be made on my part. ---on 3/20 @ 01:21 writes: While I'm voting rejection on both of the offered solutions, and though I am loathe to support a solution made in the comments (down with Solution 4s), I agree that it'd be appropriate if any Geomancer could self-cast Fleshstone in any tainted room. ---on 3/21 @ 14:34 writes: I currently think Fleshstone and bubble are a bit too strong what with having no counter. I'd be rejecting this report until such time as there is a counter to bubble/fleshstone in the same way that there is a counter to maze. Would 100% support a counter ability+this report going in as a sol 4. ---on 3/21 @ 19:21 writes: I think allowing the self-cast of Fleshstone in melded/tainted ground seems fine to me. Support for the in-comments Sol 3, but it feels like we need more conversation about banish-type skills before we do something as strong as Sol 1 or 2.